tenaya | clipped scene from Mallozzi's blog

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clipped scene from Mallozzi's blog

Not complimentary to Carter so proceed with caution (or glee...)

So this is the scene that has the S/Jers a'twitter:

"But, to tide you over, here’s that snipped scene from Trio. A little chat between Carter and Keller as they are knotting up that rope:

Carter: So…you seeing anyone?
Keller: What?
Carter: Around the base, you seeing anyone?
Keller: I dunno…I had a moment with - with this…guy. He’s not exactly easy to read so…I guess the short answer is “no”. You?
Carter: Well, I’m the boss, so I can’t really…
Keller: Right Anyone back home?
Carter: Uhm…
Keller: Un-huh, I thought so. Give it up.
Carter: Well, it’s complicated.
Keller: Show me a relationship that isn’t.
Carter: He’s in Washington…I’m here.
Keller: Ouch. Long distance relationship.
Carter: He’s going to retire soon, so maybe -
Keller: Really! Retire? So…an older man, huh?
Carter: Not that much older.
Keller: Washington, older man…is he like a Senator or something? Someone famous? Would I know him?
Carter: Probably not."

Two things. One: She says "maybe." Yet again it sounds like it's just her hopes and yet again she sounds like she's either mooning after him or stalking him. If he *had* been wanting to settle down with her, would he really assign her to Atlantis? :::snerk::: I think Jack has on Earth his main squeezy toy. *g*

And two, suddenly Jack is not that much older than Carter. Yet the shippers would have her younger than Daniel. Daniel looks nowhere near retirement age. So, following her words, Carter must be within shouting distance of retiring. It's no wonder they never include Daniel in their stories or they ridicule him; he's the bit of truth that upsets their delusions.

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Gah! I can't believe they are still playing this game with Carter. This is supposed to be the big love of her life (and his)? If she's with Jack why does she answer the question ' Anyone back home?' with an uhm? Either they are together or they're not. You're right, this is just about Carter's wishful thinking... again. Beyond tedious.

I wonder if she would have played it the same way she did when Barrett asked if she was seeing someone. Embarrassed and guilty.

It's gone passed embarrassing.

suddenly Jack is not that much older than Carter.

A statement anyone might make if they were in love. Or even if they liked someone. Conversely, one year can be an enormous age-gap for the purposes of raillery.

Yet the shippers would have her younger than Daniel.

This is based on an on-screen prop shown in the episode "Entity," so... anybody who takes secondary canon into account in their fic would be going with this.

Daniel looks nowhere near retirement age.

We have canon ("1969") for Daniel having been born in either 1964 or 1965, which would make him around 43 in 2008. As a civilian contractor with the SGC, he's unlikely to have a mandatory retirement age.

So, following her words, Carter must be within shouting distance of retiring.

If you mean compulsory age-based retirement, no. If, however, you presume that she entered the Academy at eighteen and got out at 22, she's within a couple of years of her 20, and could retire with full benefits then, did she so choose.

It's no wonder they never include Daniel in their stories or they ridicule him; he's the bit of truth that upsets their delusions.

Wow, it's a good thing I mostly read slash, because slashers never do anything like that. Why, every slash story I've ever read has featured Carter and even Teal'c in prominent roles, and Carter is *never* ridiculed.

I had posted this before I went through my flist and saw your post and the conversation that ensued. Having had this conversation SO many times before, I thought, well, at least my post is labeled.

I labeled the post because I know the world isn't all about me and people have the right to choose what they want to read. I don't go to aggressively s/j places because of "live and let live." I respect other people enough to let them know in advance they might be getting into something they don't want to get into.

People feel passionately about this subject. Personally, I have never seen any reciprocation from Jack except for one "this is fucked" look towards the end of WOO and that could be interpreted a few ways. I think the Pete arc showed Carter in the worst possible light. I think if they had wanted to have ship, it really should have been Dr. Carter instead of Capt. Carter. I know exactly what happens to women in this situation --every time.

Fair enough about people retiring early in the military. Unfortunately, the scripted response to Keller's question makes it seem like Carter's embarrassed by the suggestion she'd be dating an older man. Jack is supposed to be born in 1952? If you want to make Carter younger than Daniel that's gonna put even more years between Jack and Sam, and what, at least 13-14 years? That's older in my book, not 'not that much older.'

The whole conversation comes across to me like it's still just a relationship in her head. The more they pursue this, the sadder she seems to me. As the saying goes, TPTB should either shit or get off the pot when it comes to ship.

And the last story I recced was a fine gen, very strong team story. Is Daniel prominent in it? Not any more than the other three. And Carter was the character I used to like years ago.

Good point about relationship stories not bothering to feature characters outside of their pairing. I should have specified the ship stories that are advertised as team stories that treat Daniel poorly--and by that I mean a non-canon type of way. Ship isn't canon any more than Sam is a stalker. Both are interpretations of the same scenes.

The entire conversation isn't real, beacause, dudes, it wasn't in the show - it got clipped for a *reason* (like time, sense or Cooper/Wright going, "WTF are you *doing* Mallozzi?")

I just took a look-see at ivorygate's post and the comments that follow it. I was tempted to comment, like Whisper, about the violent threats, the huffiness, the justifications and rationalizations about Those Who Do Not See the Ship, and decided not to - because honestly, why waste the time? Why waste the squee for something that Mallozzi spewed out of his mouth (fingers) like other people vomit pizza chunks?

Coding, subtext and all that crap...oh, please. At least most of the slashers I know, they're in it for the fun and the kinks. If you like the ship? Don't kid yourselves.

Apparently the S/J fans have special dispensation that their opinions and POV canon or fanon are the ONLY correct interpretation and the rest of us are delusional and need to be beaten by something heavy.

Mallozzi used and manipulated the shippers to put weight behind him and his agendas in whatever sort of crap went on the writer's room. I remember hearing that they'd stack the locs that supported their pov and the biggest stack won. He courted the shippers because they could give him power at work. He leads them on because he's a twisted fuck and a megalomaniac. He has given them a feeling of entitlement and the dangled promise S/J will one day be canon. He's all the time pulling this crap. He fancies himself a puppetmaster that can make fandom dance to his tune.

So, yeah, from their pov they do have special dispensation and that gives them the power and the right to bully other fans.

And as you've seen, if you call them on it, you're a lone voice and apparently batshit--because they've got the power and it's easier for them to call you those names than to feel embarrassed that they were out of control.

From my pov, it's like watching a bunch of hooligans mob someone standing on street corner. It doesn't matter that they think they're the "cool kids"--I know exactly what sort of kids they proven themselves to be.

Very sorry you had to go through that.

Fair enough.

Jack's birthdate is either 1952 (age given on the on-screen ID we see) or 1958 (I forget the citation for that offhand but Arduinna might have it on her page, and in "Brief Candle" he refers to himself as being forty, which gives credence to the later date.) A lot of people like the later date, but since he's wearing a Vietnam service ribbon on his dress uniform, it really isn't possible as far as I know.

The trouble with a birthdate for Sam of 1968 is that she would be 28 in 1997 (the first year of the Stargate Program; it starts in March and her birthday is in August, right?) and I just don't think the timing works out for the rank she carries when we first meet her and all the things she's supposed to have already done (flying an aircraft in enemy airspace; two years at the Pentagon working on the Stargate Program stuff.)

Of course the main canon evidence for a mutual (instead of one-sided) Sam-Jack relationship depends a lot on how you interpret the events of "Divide and Conquer." (Three fans, five opinions.)

Do I love what TPTB did to Sam's character? No. Do I think a S/J relationship is either plausible in RW terms or viable for these characters? Plausible, no. Viable, only maybe. Do I think TPTB meant to code it into what we saw on-screen? Yes. Do I want it resolved (because I want every single dangling plotline resolved?) Yes. Am I thrilled at even an *implied* mention of Jack because I miss him so much? HELL yes.

That's my only point, really. Or, um, points.

No. Come on. They've finally dropped this and turned Sam into a character I was actually liking again.

Grrrr....

Well, as far as I'm concerned, she's not talking about Jack, but I wish they'd stay away from this topic completely.

Is this an actual scene that's going to be on the show? I hadn't heard anything about it.

In the military, you can retire any time after 20 years. Toolman retires next year after 30 years (forced retirement). Some of the higher ranks (like Sam's) can stay in longer, but I'm not sure how much longer or what rules the different services have. My guess would be that Sam is over 20 already and can retire at any time (which doesn't mean she can hand in a letter and leave in one day--you have to put in your retirment letter and then it takes months, usually).

Even so...

ETA: Actually, not that it matters, but in the interests of being accurate *g*, toolman retires this year. December.

Good points about the retirement age in the military.

Oh she's probably talking about Jack but this is just another example of this 'relationship' being pursued and perceived by just one of the pair.

AT is playing Carter very differently than she did when Carter was on SG1 and I, too, was beginning to lose my reflexive head down, shoulders up posture when she was on the screen. THANK GOD they did not include this.

She's been in Atlantis so little, her presence so low-key and softened, and certainly not 'command-like' - even Weir had more command showing than Carter: I was losing my cringe and duck reflex when it came to Carter.

Yeah, I'm very glad they didn't include this.

I'm not sure if my points about retirement in the military were relevant or not, since I may have missed the point of that the first time. Jack was probably over 20 before SG-1 started. He was retired at that time and then went back on active duty at the time the show started, so Jack is likely over 30 now, but because he's a higher rank, he doesn't have to retire at 30. I'm not sure if there is a mandatory retirement. Hammond was not a young guy either.

I know JM wanted it to seem like she was talking about Jack, but if this has actually been on the show, I'd have pretended it wasn't. *g*

I forgot to say this was scripted, and I think it was shot, but then not included. Mallozzi's done this mulitple times. I think he's just wanking off.

How many times has he pulled this crap? Oh look, he says, I wrote this fabulous piece of shippy stuff but it didn't quite make it into the script or into the episode or onto the DVD. Honestly, I feel quite sorry for the shippers in some ways.

I don't, not after reading ivorygate's sequence of comments.

How amazing the anger that arises when something shippy isn't included. How amazing that shippers of S/J have to actually use imagination to fill in their blanks. Kinda like everyone else.

What I find most amazing is in that thread that starts off talking about Sam on the show devolves by the very *same* supporters that 'oh yeah, the Sam and Sam/Jack on screen sucks, it's the fanon Sam & Sam/Jack that ROCKS'. Apparently THEY are the only ones allowed to have any kind of say about Sam and most especially their Sam/Jack ship.

hehe Yeah, he probably was. Okay then. I don't care if he posts this stuff. He's always trying to stir things up. It didn't make it to the show, so...good. *g*

Aiz, I'd say, just ignore Mallozzi's twisted attempts at yet more attention. Heck, according to Nialla, Chris Judge was interviewed for TV Guide. That's something I'm sure Mallozzi is wibbling his lower lip. When can HE have an interview with TV Guide? Huh? Why do *actors* get all the attention? Why don't third rate writers for a second rate SF show get all the attention?

hehe I've seen JM talk about that a few times. He always stresses that he doesn't care for himself, but he doesn't understand why people want to see random actors instead of the "other" producers and writers. *g* (But if he doesn't care, why is he the only one who mentions it?)

I'm always interested in the producers and writers and directors, but most casual fans of the show only know the actors because that's what they see. The actors also tend to be prettier. *g*

I've seen enough rants by JM because HE wasn't invited to a convention, because 'Jaffa #2' is invited and HE isn't invited and WTFBBQ that there's no denying he's just a jealous little prick.

Is that what he has against Creation? I've been wondering what they did to him.

He posted this most AMAZING rant over on GW several years ago. I've never been able to go back and find it, once I figured out who JM 'was' and realizing HE was the one who did the ranting.

Actually, according to various sources, Sam is younger than Daniel. However, realistically, she shouldn't be with all the things she's supposedly done. Now, military people can retire after 20 years of service (they just don't get as big a percentage of pay as they do at 30). So, with Sam in Desert Storm (which is canon), even if she came in towards the end, she's almost at 20 years. Jack is established as being at least 10 years older than Daniel who is about 2-3 years older than Sam (if I'm not mistaken). We know that Jack has been in the USAF since 18 which means he's carrying, at the very least, 36 years of service (which he's allowed as a General, anything under that would have to be justified). She's right - Jack is technically supposed to be out by this year. However, if she's saying that 12-13 years isn't that much older, then she's rather fooling herself. She's also fooling herself if she thinks she's going to have a family at this point. She's too old to have a kid without seriously compromising herself, especially since she hasn't had a kid before.

I also have to agree that if Jack really was interested in her, he would have encouraged her to return to Area 51 (maybe in more of a command position then she indicated at the beginning of S9) as opposed to sticking her directly in the path of vampiric enemies. Yes, Atlantis would look great on her resume, but she's already at a full-bird Colonel, which is impressive enough. And, if she's bent on getting married to Jack, she'd probably be wise to retire, then marry him as opposed to hanging onto a field position she really doesn't need.

So, I have to agree Sam's deluding herself again; however, Malozzi has bought into the Sam/Jack twu wuv crap. He's just doing the coy "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" to the S/J'ers. I just really wish they'd kill that whole romance idea.

I pretty much agree with you except for a few things.

One, I think it really shows that they've never had a show bible and the relative ages change depending on who has written it.

I remember someone did a realistic timeline for Sam, considering her Desert Storm stuff and her astrophysics degree AND her time at the Pentagon and she can't be younger than Daniel (I can't remember what they decided.) To be fair, one has to accept her credentials and be her older, or she ceases to have any realism to her.

I think she's after Jack because she can't have him. And if she really wanted him -- MORE than her career -- they would have changed assignments or whatever to make it work. Waiting for retirement? Sounds like she doesn't really want it that badly.

Also, I think they have nothing in common and they know it.

And yeah, this horse was beaten to death around the time of Grace and the Pete arc. She looked pathetic with her indecision AFTER she'd said, "yes, yes, yes, yes...." to his proposal. Any stuff that pops up now hits my radar that she should seek professional help to understand why she can't let it go.

I used to really like Sam a lot. TPTB have screwed up her character because AT didn't protect Sam; she agreed to anything that would be fun or different. And these bozo writers have a teenage boy pov of what a woman is so they didn't protect Sam either.

Daniel's character has changed a lot, but MS has controlled that change so that it's still Daniel. RDA may have made Jack too goofy, but he never let Jack participate in the ship, hopefully because he knew how it would make his character seem. What sort of CO accepts sexual attention/favors from a subordinate? Creepy ones. I appreciated that.

Gotta go to bed!

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clipped scene from Mallozzi's blog

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