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Escapade 2004: Saturday Part 2
Mar. 2nd, 2004 04:53 amStargate: Season 5-7 Does J/D still work? There was a nice, wide variety of Stargate fans in attendance; I counted 35 at one time which was pretty good. There were two girls wearing black T-Shirts and one had on the front in large letters "Daniel?" and the other shirt said, "Jack?" Very funny!
Anyway, one person quickly said that J/D's toned down because they're so doing it. I believe the moderator was feeling that J/D didn't work anymore, and that was okay because there was a rush to point out things to show that it did still work. One person thought they were more mellow with a content together vibe. They don't disagree anymore, they're comfortable. Daniel has changed in Season 7, he smiles more...to the point of showing off his dimples. They thought that bit in Chimera where Jack asked Daniel if he was asleep yet sounded like it was a nightly routine. The consensus was that their scenes together light up, like magic. It was noted very perceptively that expectations influence perception. There was a fan that said the first SG ep she'd seen was Lifeboat and she felt it was very slashy with the way that Jack refused to leave Daniel and the exchange when Daniel wakes up about the nail through the head. This fan was happy to admit that she was now watching 11 hours/wk on SciFi trying to catch up.
Other observations were that Daniel was confident of his intellect but not of his bravery.
(I'm not sure of that, personally. I'm trying to think of any time that he hesitated or avoided a conflict/danger. He's cautious, and I think he was scared a number of times, and while he was unsure of military protocols and his place, I don't think he ever failed to raise to the occasion.)
One person felt that the conflict between the two in Seasons 4 & 5 was due to the fact that Jack had to learn that Daniel can take care of himself and allow him to do so, even though Daniel pushes all of Jack's "protect me" buttons. That brought out the predictable "Poor Widdle Danny" statement/pov; thankfully, things moved quickly past that to some Mallozzi and Mullie bashing. That was also accomplished quickly as everyone agreed about their shortcomings, adding that their writing of Marty Sues was increasingly embarrassing and more than a few fans thought one of them had the hots for Carter. I guess that's pretty obvious from Avenger 2.0 where the science geek was playing with a Carter action figure. How on earth that ever got filmed! They also bristled about the late Season 5 interviews with the writers where their kept crowing about how the fans "will love the new characters," and how certain writers bragged about how they threw out the show's bible without reading it. (There was a bit I'd heard from somewhere that M&M were tired of PDL walking in to their office and telling them where they had departed from canon, so they simply locked him out during Season 6 so he wouldn't pester them any further.) The consensus was the writers had no clue about what their viewers wanted.
There was a general murmuring of approval about the increased amount of skin in S7. Another thought it was SciFi that was pushing the Jack/Sam agenda.
Someone stated that Daniel gives Jack more verbally positive statements now, that Daniel's preferred form of intimacy to Jack is verbal rather than physical as Daniel is uncomfortable with initiating touch. Other indications that these two are close are that Daniel knows all about Jack's private life (Charlie) and that in Lifeboat, Daniel calls for Jack twice, once when he's being attacked and then again when he's barely conscious. When Daniel called Jack Jim in Fallen, it really hurt Jack's feelings. In Enemy Line, Jack tells Daniel to go to his happy place, and that Jack is actually protecting other people from Daniel at that point. The bottom line was that many people thought the J/D interaction was just as good as other seasons, but there just wasn't as much of it due to the general shortage of Jack due to RDA's schedule.
The next panel was, "No One Owns A Fandom -- Yeah, right! Why are we so possessive of our fandoms, so concerned about the directions and trends, and why do we worry about our fandom's reputations in other fannish circles? And how do certain fan's stories and opinions end up dominating the landscape?" We as fans have proprietary feelings about many things, like: our fandom, the characters, the positions, fanon, the fannish writers, archives, conventions, story types, themes, AUs, songs and some BNFs influence on a fandom. Spats cause division and a loss of common ground for the fandom. Splintering can create creativity...or does it? There are the attitudes of "I must destroy them or convert them;" fandom as a religious experience. A splintered fandom looses resources like writers and people get cross when the fannish resources decrease.
What constitutes a fandom now, particularly in something like Harry Potter or LoTR with all the different pairings, both slash and het? Live Journal is either the United Nations or the Tower of Babel. In venues where people of differing views share space, stories can be written in reaction to another pov. Some felt their best work was done in opposition, that lack of contention equals decreased creativity. Then again, an idea can't be unintroduced; once it's been said, it's in your head and touches your fandom.
A fandom is a shared community, a shared identity. Different values (pairings) feel threatening. Fans enjoy marginalization because rebelling makes one feel more powerful. We feel loyalty towards our guys and feel we must support them because they're fictional and can't defend themselves. Wars can occur when our values are dismissed, but it's important to remember that other opinions may be valid. IDIC.
We should remember that there is a real person behind the post. Why is another idea a threat? Why react to trolls? Secure people aren't threatened. The fear of limited resources can feed the fires with gasoline. We can be a culture of outrage and drama. People feel deprived if anyone isn't writing the type of stories they want to read. We can also feel insecure due to personal issues. Fans are needy, insecure people but we can choose how we react. Due South was offered as an encouraging example. It had been a big fandom but the Ray Wars hit hard and caused division, but lately there has been more tolerance and the fandom is increasing again.
I had wanted to attend two more panels, "Age: Just a Number? Fandom and age of consent" and "Beyond the Envelope: Pushing the boundaries goes too far?" but began to feel ill. I decided to go rest in the room until my roomies were ready for dinner. I still had a decided headache by the time of the vid show, though.
The vid show was great, very smooth. They made it look easy. The content was wonderful, with a good mixture of fandoms, humor and seriousness. It was a real treat as always!
After the show, we went back into our room and read a bit from our new zines to wind down before sleeping. And, as usual, as someone would groan at what they'd read, we'd get them to read those passages out loud. I had the dubious distinction to be able to read from a story that caused nearly incapacitating laughter...and I'm sorry to say, the story wasn't a comedy.
Sunday was the free breakfast followed by the art auction. There was some delightful art, most particularly by Mouse and X. In fact, while I was determined not to bid on anything, at the last moment I decided there was a SG piece by X I could NOT let go for under $300. Luckily for me, the bidding went past that amount in probably less than 30 seconds. It was gorgeous, though. She'd caught Daniel in the midst of orgasm and the smug look on Jack was so perfect. It was amazing.
We took another turn around the dealer's room, chatted and laughed a bit more with friends, and finally took our leave. It was another wonderful convention, filled with intelligent folks with exciting ideas. It's dynamic and charged, and it never fails to give me a lift both creatively and personally. I laugh and I think, and I appreciate the multi-talented con attendees and all the wonderful things they do, while I bask in the camaraderie of my own friendships. And even though the ever-present rain is unpopular with most people, I love it. It just reinforces the sense of revitalization I feel; the hillsides are green with new life and the rain makes things clean and fresh. Everything is brighter after Escapade.
Thanks, Jen!
Anyway, one person quickly said that J/D's toned down because they're so doing it. I believe the moderator was feeling that J/D didn't work anymore, and that was okay because there was a rush to point out things to show that it did still work. One person thought they were more mellow with a content together vibe. They don't disagree anymore, they're comfortable. Daniel has changed in Season 7, he smiles more...to the point of showing off his dimples. They thought that bit in Chimera where Jack asked Daniel if he was asleep yet sounded like it was a nightly routine. The consensus was that their scenes together light up, like magic. It was noted very perceptively that expectations influence perception. There was a fan that said the first SG ep she'd seen was Lifeboat and she felt it was very slashy with the way that Jack refused to leave Daniel and the exchange when Daniel wakes up about the nail through the head. This fan was happy to admit that she was now watching 11 hours/wk on SciFi trying to catch up.
Other observations were that Daniel was confident of his intellect but not of his bravery.
(I'm not sure of that, personally. I'm trying to think of any time that he hesitated or avoided a conflict/danger. He's cautious, and I think he was scared a number of times, and while he was unsure of military protocols and his place, I don't think he ever failed to raise to the occasion.)
One person felt that the conflict between the two in Seasons 4 & 5 was due to the fact that Jack had to learn that Daniel can take care of himself and allow him to do so, even though Daniel pushes all of Jack's "protect me" buttons. That brought out the predictable "Poor Widdle Danny" statement/pov; thankfully, things moved quickly past that to some Mallozzi and Mullie bashing. That was also accomplished quickly as everyone agreed about their shortcomings, adding that their writing of Marty Sues was increasingly embarrassing and more than a few fans thought one of them had the hots for Carter. I guess that's pretty obvious from Avenger 2.0 where the science geek was playing with a Carter action figure. How on earth that ever got filmed! They also bristled about the late Season 5 interviews with the writers where their kept crowing about how the fans "will love the new characters," and how certain writers bragged about how they threw out the show's bible without reading it. (There was a bit I'd heard from somewhere that M&M were tired of PDL walking in to their office and telling them where they had departed from canon, so they simply locked him out during Season 6 so he wouldn't pester them any further.) The consensus was the writers had no clue about what their viewers wanted.
There was a general murmuring of approval about the increased amount of skin in S7. Another thought it was SciFi that was pushing the Jack/Sam agenda.
Someone stated that Daniel gives Jack more verbally positive statements now, that Daniel's preferred form of intimacy to Jack is verbal rather than physical as Daniel is uncomfortable with initiating touch. Other indications that these two are close are that Daniel knows all about Jack's private life (Charlie) and that in Lifeboat, Daniel calls for Jack twice, once when he's being attacked and then again when he's barely conscious. When Daniel called Jack Jim in Fallen, it really hurt Jack's feelings. In Enemy Line, Jack tells Daniel to go to his happy place, and that Jack is actually protecting other people from Daniel at that point. The bottom line was that many people thought the J/D interaction was just as good as other seasons, but there just wasn't as much of it due to the general shortage of Jack due to RDA's schedule.
The next panel was, "No One Owns A Fandom -- Yeah, right! Why are we so possessive of our fandoms, so concerned about the directions and trends, and why do we worry about our fandom's reputations in other fannish circles? And how do certain fan's stories and opinions end up dominating the landscape?" We as fans have proprietary feelings about many things, like: our fandom, the characters, the positions, fanon, the fannish writers, archives, conventions, story types, themes, AUs, songs and some BNFs influence on a fandom. Spats cause division and a loss of common ground for the fandom. Splintering can create creativity...or does it? There are the attitudes of "I must destroy them or convert them;" fandom as a religious experience. A splintered fandom looses resources like writers and people get cross when the fannish resources decrease.
What constitutes a fandom now, particularly in something like Harry Potter or LoTR with all the different pairings, both slash and het? Live Journal is either the United Nations or the Tower of Babel. In venues where people of differing views share space, stories can be written in reaction to another pov. Some felt their best work was done in opposition, that lack of contention equals decreased creativity. Then again, an idea can't be unintroduced; once it's been said, it's in your head and touches your fandom.
A fandom is a shared community, a shared identity. Different values (pairings) feel threatening. Fans enjoy marginalization because rebelling makes one feel more powerful. We feel loyalty towards our guys and feel we must support them because they're fictional and can't defend themselves. Wars can occur when our values are dismissed, but it's important to remember that other opinions may be valid. IDIC.
We should remember that there is a real person behind the post. Why is another idea a threat? Why react to trolls? Secure people aren't threatened. The fear of limited resources can feed the fires with gasoline. We can be a culture of outrage and drama. People feel deprived if anyone isn't writing the type of stories they want to read. We can also feel insecure due to personal issues. Fans are needy, insecure people but we can choose how we react. Due South was offered as an encouraging example. It had been a big fandom but the Ray Wars hit hard and caused division, but lately there has been more tolerance and the fandom is increasing again.
I had wanted to attend two more panels, "Age: Just a Number? Fandom and age of consent" and "Beyond the Envelope: Pushing the boundaries goes too far?" but began to feel ill. I decided to go rest in the room until my roomies were ready for dinner. I still had a decided headache by the time of the vid show, though.
The vid show was great, very smooth. They made it look easy.
After the show, we went back into our room and read a bit from our new zines to wind down before sleeping. And, as usual, as someone would groan at what they'd read, we'd get them to read those passages out loud. I had the dubious distinction to be able to read from a story that caused nearly incapacitating laughter...and I'm sorry to say, the story wasn't a comedy.
Sunday was the free breakfast followed by the art auction. There was some delightful art, most particularly by Mouse and X. In fact, while I was determined not to bid on anything, at the last moment I decided there was a SG piece by X I could NOT let go for under $300. Luckily for me, the bidding went past that amount in probably less than 30 seconds. It was gorgeous, though. She'd caught Daniel in the midst of orgasm and the smug look on Jack was so perfect. It was amazing.
We took another turn around the dealer's room, chatted and laughed a bit more with friends, and finally took our leave. It was another wonderful convention, filled with intelligent folks with exciting ideas. It's dynamic and charged, and it never fails to give me a lift both creatively and personally. I laugh and I think, and I appreciate the multi-talented con attendees and all the wonderful things they do, while I bask in the camaraderie of my own friendships. And even though the ever-present rain is unpopular with most people, I love it. It just reinforces the sense of revitalization I feel; the hillsides are green with new life and the rain makes things clean and fresh. Everything is brighter after Escapade.
Thanks, Jen!
