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tenayaThis rant is about something that has been bothering me for a while.
I dislike the character of Jonas. I have very good reasons why I dislike Jonas. My problem is when my solid reasons for disliking Jonas are dismissed by other fans with a wave of their hand and the phrase, "Well, you would dislike anybody that was Daniel's replacement." And I think, "Were you not listening to me?" and I realize, no, they weren't. Their dismissal of my opinion is both arrogant and insulting, but that doesn't matter to them. What is important to them is that they have a construct of fandom in their minds and for whatever reasons, it doesn't allow for another fan to have a valid dislike of Jonas. And when I get upset at their dismissal that is dismissed as "Well, you're a Dannyfan; it's all emotional for you and you have no reasons/logic in your argument. You just feel that way because you lost the guy you think was cute." And I go, "Huh?"
Obviously, there is no winning with these people because they are vested in their beliefs and really aren't listening anyway. But I just wanted to say that when you say to me, "oh, come on! You wouldn't like anyone that took Danny's place," I don't feel annoyed any more. No, I'm just laughing at you as I try to figure out why it's important to you to hold that belief.
Footnotes for rant:
I dislike Jonas because he is a poorly constructed character and because his actions repel me on a personal level.
Jonas stood by while Daniel took emergency action to save millions of people. Actually, that doesn't bother me. Jonas participated in the conspiracy to blame Daniel for the accident. Okay, not very flattering, but he has his place in society to protect. The part that offends me greatly is that he is given the credentials as being highly educated and is an 'ethicist.' He knew what he was doing was wrong but did it anyway. In Double Jeopardy, Darian killed the Daniel robot because he was in an impossible situation; he was his people's leader and it was his job to protect them. He killed a character I like, but I understand why he did it. In The Light, Loran withheld information that could have saved 4 lives, and nearly cost Daniel his life but I don't hold him responsible. Why? Because he is just a kid who has major guilt about causing his own parent's death and is in serious denial over it. In New Ground, Nyan knows his government is dangerous and filled with religious fanatics, but he warns SG-1 immediately about their danger because he views Truth to be of the highest importance, even if pursuit of Truth costs him everything he holds dear. All these people behave appropriately and within the specs of the given characterizations. Jonas does not, so either he is a man who lies knowing full well what he is doing is wrong, or he is a poorly written character. Either way, I don't like him.
There are two other big instances that added further proof that he is either badly written or a man who is not to be trusted. In Redemption Part Two, we see him standing around staring at the Stargate. The Earth is about to be destroyed and Sam has run out of ideas. She goes down to ask him what he is doing. With prodding, he wonders if the Gate can't be removed by the same why it was brought into the Mountain. He had an angle on a way to solve their problem and save Earth but he didn't offer it freely during a crisis situation. That is appalling. The other instance in Nightwalkers, he denied knowing the name Adrian Conrad during a briefing. He later said he lied because he didn't want people at the base thinking he was strange. I found that a lame excuse to lie to Hammond during a briefing. It was a small lie, but again, I found his judgment both appalling and totally at odds with him being an 'ethicist.' Why this untrustworthy man is given a job on SG-1 is...dare I say "appalling" again? I don't trust him and dislike him yet the characters I'm emotionally attached to, Jack, Teal'c and Sam, are forced to rely on him. This means that every time I see him on the screen, my hackles are up as I just wait for him to mess up again.
A few behind the scenes reasons for me not to like Jonas. The writers have said that Daniel was hard to write for, his story arc was finished, an academic had no place on a first contact team. While I personally find these arguments incompetent, it really boils down to a difference of opinion. Suzie Fangrrl vs TPTB. What? Daniel's actor is leaving because he's tired of being wallpaper? Okay, I can see why a talented young actor would leave when the show runner made it plain that there would be no change with the current situation. What? A new character is taking Daniel's place and he will be completely different from Daniel? Well, of course SG-1 will need a fourth and since Daniel, the translator/archeologist/moral voice of the team, was so hard to write for, I guess that makes sense and gee, I wonder what sort of character they will get? What? Jonas is an ethicist, has read all of Daniel's books and journals--basically consuming a lifetime of study and work and due to an exceptional memory, can now do everything Daniel did but better? And he can spot errors in Sam's work because he read some engineering books??
Okay, this is where no matter how TPTB spin their reasons and change their tune, I can see lies and sense studio shenanigans. Either they think their fans are stupid or that we have the short term memory span of a goldfish. Wrong on both counts. But is any of that Jonas' fault? No, but it shows why he was poorly conceived. The show does need a man of Daniel's abilities within the team. Daniel was removed and another character was constructed to fulfill Daniel's role, but because Daniel had exceptional abilities (and the detailed history to make such abilities plausible) his replacement had to have those skills, too. In fact, in a astounding lack of judgment, Jonas was given all that Daniel had and MORE through Jonas' magical memory. Jonas exists to fill a Daniel shaped hole; his characteristics are there because the storyline demands that he have these abilities. I have no feeling that he is a real character and when he is on the screen, he totally pulls me out of the mental space of believing in the Stargate illusion. Instead, I'm analyzing the writing and figuring out why it is wrong and why these highly paid writer/producers thought they could tap-dance this one right past us.
So, I don't like Jonas and I have my reasons. Should my dlislike of Jonas affect you appreciation of the character? No. What I'm saying here, is that I have vaild reasons for disliking Jonas and a breezy dismissal of the validity of said reasons is really more about your motivations than it is about me or my opinion. It's about drawing a clear distinction about who is being logical and reasonable and who isn't.
I dislike the character of Jonas. I have very good reasons why I dislike Jonas. My problem is when my solid reasons for disliking Jonas are dismissed by other fans with a wave of their hand and the phrase, "Well, you would dislike anybody that was Daniel's replacement." And I think, "Were you not listening to me?" and I realize, no, they weren't. Their dismissal of my opinion is both arrogant and insulting, but that doesn't matter to them. What is important to them is that they have a construct of fandom in their minds and for whatever reasons, it doesn't allow for another fan to have a valid dislike of Jonas. And when I get upset at their dismissal that is dismissed as "Well, you're a Dannyfan; it's all emotional for you and you have no reasons/logic in your argument. You just feel that way because you lost the guy you think was cute." And I go, "Huh?"
Obviously, there is no winning with these people because they are vested in their beliefs and really aren't listening anyway. But I just wanted to say that when you say to me, "oh, come on! You wouldn't like anyone that took Danny's place," I don't feel annoyed any more. No, I'm just laughing at you as I try to figure out why it's important to you to hold that belief.
Footnotes for rant:
I dislike Jonas because he is a poorly constructed character and because his actions repel me on a personal level.
Jonas stood by while Daniel took emergency action to save millions of people. Actually, that doesn't bother me. Jonas participated in the conspiracy to blame Daniel for the accident. Okay, not very flattering, but he has his place in society to protect. The part that offends me greatly is that he is given the credentials as being highly educated and is an 'ethicist.' He knew what he was doing was wrong but did it anyway. In Double Jeopardy, Darian killed the Daniel robot because he was in an impossible situation; he was his people's leader and it was his job to protect them. He killed a character I like, but I understand why he did it. In The Light, Loran withheld information that could have saved 4 lives, and nearly cost Daniel his life but I don't hold him responsible. Why? Because he is just a kid who has major guilt about causing his own parent's death and is in serious denial over it. In New Ground, Nyan knows his government is dangerous and filled with religious fanatics, but he warns SG-1 immediately about their danger because he views Truth to be of the highest importance, even if pursuit of Truth costs him everything he holds dear. All these people behave appropriately and within the specs of the given characterizations. Jonas does not, so either he is a man who lies knowing full well what he is doing is wrong, or he is a poorly written character. Either way, I don't like him.
There are two other big instances that added further proof that he is either badly written or a man who is not to be trusted. In Redemption Part Two, we see him standing around staring at the Stargate. The Earth is about to be destroyed and Sam has run out of ideas. She goes down to ask him what he is doing. With prodding, he wonders if the Gate can't be removed by the same why it was brought into the Mountain. He had an angle on a way to solve their problem and save Earth but he didn't offer it freely during a crisis situation. That is appalling. The other instance in Nightwalkers, he denied knowing the name Adrian Conrad during a briefing. He later said he lied because he didn't want people at the base thinking he was strange. I found that a lame excuse to lie to Hammond during a briefing. It was a small lie, but again, I found his judgment both appalling and totally at odds with him being an 'ethicist.' Why this untrustworthy man is given a job on SG-1 is...dare I say "appalling" again? I don't trust him and dislike him yet the characters I'm emotionally attached to, Jack, Teal'c and Sam, are forced to rely on him. This means that every time I see him on the screen, my hackles are up as I just wait for him to mess up again.
A few behind the scenes reasons for me not to like Jonas. The writers have said that Daniel was hard to write for, his story arc was finished, an academic had no place on a first contact team. While I personally find these arguments incompetent, it really boils down to a difference of opinion. Suzie Fangrrl vs TPTB. What? Daniel's actor is leaving because he's tired of being wallpaper? Okay, I can see why a talented young actor would leave when the show runner made it plain that there would be no change with the current situation. What? A new character is taking Daniel's place and he will be completely different from Daniel? Well, of course SG-1 will need a fourth and since Daniel, the translator/archeologist/moral voice of the team, was so hard to write for, I guess that makes sense and gee, I wonder what sort of character they will get? What? Jonas is an ethicist, has read all of Daniel's books and journals--basically consuming a lifetime of study and work and due to an exceptional memory, can now do everything Daniel did but better? And he can spot errors in Sam's work because he read some engineering books??
Okay, this is where no matter how TPTB spin their reasons and change their tune, I can see lies and sense studio shenanigans. Either they think their fans are stupid or that we have the short term memory span of a goldfish. Wrong on both counts. But is any of that Jonas' fault? No, but it shows why he was poorly conceived. The show does need a man of Daniel's abilities within the team. Daniel was removed and another character was constructed to fulfill Daniel's role, but because Daniel had exceptional abilities (and the detailed history to make such abilities plausible) his replacement had to have those skills, too. In fact, in a astounding lack of judgment, Jonas was given all that Daniel had and MORE through Jonas' magical memory. Jonas exists to fill a Daniel shaped hole; his characteristics are there because the storyline demands that he have these abilities. I have no feeling that he is a real character and when he is on the screen, he totally pulls me out of the mental space of believing in the Stargate illusion. Instead, I'm analyzing the writing and figuring out why it is wrong and why these highly paid writer/producers thought they could tap-dance this one right past us.
So, I don't like Jonas and I have my reasons. Should my dlislike of Jonas affect you appreciation of the character? No. What I'm saying here, is that I have vaild reasons for disliking Jonas and a breezy dismissal of the validity of said reasons is really more about your motivations than it is about me or my opinion. It's about drawing a clear distinction about who is being logical and reasonable and who isn't.
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(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-23 08:20 am (UTC)I agree with everything you said here. I also dislike Jonas for the reasons you listed. I don't think I dislike him quite as much as you do :g: but he is certainly a poorly conceived character and I have always maintained that if such a character appeared in fanfiction (perfect memory, ability to absorb traits of other characters through reading, always right at the expense of established canon characters) the character would be rightfully dismissed as a Marty Stu.
I think where I differ from you is that I think that Jonas could have been a fascinating character. I think he had that potential in Meridian and that it was blown big time by TPTB. Think about it - as you've said you have this ethicist who, for whatever reason, lied about what had actually happened, blaming an innocent bystander for an accident caused by his own people and who attempts to make amends for it by stealing from and betraying his own people. That kind of grey, had it been addressed, would have made him a well rounded and interesting character. I could buy, for example, that Jonas, in stealing the Nahquadria, was somehow convinced that if he left it with his people they would destroy themselves if the PTB had bothered to go this route. I could also buy that Jonas was a man consumed by guilt for his actions, but the way this was presented was so utterly unconvincing as to border on the insulting.
And finally I would never have bought Jonas as a member of SG1, certainly not immediately. The man froze during the incident on Kelowna. Unlike others I don't see that as 'cowardice' so much as a normal human reaction. It takes an exceptional man to be able to react in such a situation, particularly if it involves the sacrifice of his own life. Daniel has shown repeatedly that he will die for what he believes in but more to the point he has had 5 years experience on a field team and his instincts have been honed. Jonas has not had that luxury. However while his freezing does not make him a coward what it means is that he is unsuitable for life on a first contact team, where instant reactions are required. He has frozen once under fire, and cannot be trusted not to do it again in the field. It doesn't make him a bad person. The SGC teams are supposed to be the best of the best - it just means that, like most people, he doesn't make the grade.
So Jonas is at best a wasted opportunity and at worst, as you said, a paper construct forced into a role by TPTB in the most insulting and transparent manner possible.
And as for your comments about the anti-Daniel fans reactions to and dismissals of those who, for whatever reason, don't like Jonas? Spot on. It's quite funny, really. I've seen the same reaction to people who hate Jonas but who are actually Jack rather than Daniel fans, which just goes to show how much they know ::g::
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-23 09:49 am (UTC)Thanks for your comments, Alyse. :
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-28 01:21 am (UTC)XXX
Kitty
PS hug Reggie for me!
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-28 08:46 pm (UTC)I mailed you a couple of other tapes on Monday, so you should be getting them soon. Also, I bought you a Smallville zine at Escapade, but er, kind of perused it first before I popped it in the mail. Just making sure it was quality stuff, you understand. And there's a little notebook with a lovely man on the cover. The image on the back of that book is a transfer and is for youknowwho.
Sorry about Firefly. Supposedly there are some more eps to go, but who knows when Fox will show them. I saw a news thing that the UK Sci Fi channel outbid Sky One for Firefly, John Doe and The Visitor. Firefly is schedule to begin in May, so you will be able to pick that up. Heck, you will probably get the last few eps before we do!
Reggie has been severely squeezed for you. Strangely enough, he just grinned and purred.
Hugs,
Tenaya